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Permalink Reply by OlegR on July 24, 2008 at 8:46am

HI Katy,

We had a great discussion about CMS systems in this thread:
http://mediapro.foliomag.com/group/emedia/forum/topic/show?id=21335...

I hope you will find it helpful - more than 30 extensive replies.

What kind of CMS system are you looking for?

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Permalink Reply by Katy Williams on July 24, 2008 at 9:00am

Thanks, Oleg. I will check out your link. We are looking into DAM solutions right now, but if CMS is the next big thing, I want to avoid making a big mistake. We basically need a system for the entire company to come together in one place. I'm not sure that we know exactly what we're looking for yet! Thanks again :)

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Permalink Reply by OlegR on July 24, 2008 at 12:16pm

I posted some DAM information as well.
Please check it out - you might find it helpful:
http://mediapro.foliomag.com/group/emedia/forum/topic/show?id=21335...

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Permalink Reply by Greyson Schwing on July 31, 2008 at 10:58am

Katy,

While there is no 'magic bullet' at this point to tie print and web seamlessly together (at least none that costs less than mid 6 figures), there are a number of things that can help streamline the processes in general.

I would suggest you first look at a content management system that has built in Digital Asset Management such as TYPO3. This is a platform that can handle everything you need to do except get your content from online into InDesign for print. It does your workflows, tasking, access control, editorial and version control, DAM, ad serving, email and newsletter management, and alot more. All on an affordable, open-source platform.

I would go to cmsmatrix.org and investigate your options. Quite a few have DAM built in, its just a matter of which platform has everything you need, and as little as possible of what you don't need.

Also, I am of the mind that web content and print content are two different styles of writing altogether. Sure you can aim for just a duplication of efforts, but where will that get you? And even then, you still have to style it twice no matter what.

Besides, most readers want some congruity, but are more after one medium supplementing the other. Taking this approach will also help you structure your sponsorships and ad sales on a more interactive or integrated approach.

Hope this helps.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Zingalis on August 14, 2008 at 12:18pm

Oxcyon's centralpoint is used by hundreds of publishers, and the way that we work is if one client requests an update...like, I want a script to show the most current bloggers and their most recent blog...we build it. Then we update the code of our system and ship it to all clients. We do this once a week, ever week. So, if you are looking for a system, think about the updates that come from it...and if they are done in a void (IE: The company is adding them without real definition from their clients). Also, how 'technical' does the webmaster have to be. Add the salary for a jsp / asp / etc. coder if the system requires it. And if a paid system, see what the costs of the upgrade to the next version might be.

Many of our customers don't use ALL the functionality of Centralpoint, but...the users that are bleeding edge make the availablity of the functions like (blog / rss / scheduled rss email broadcast / lead generation [IE: real member data in relation to what records they looked at on the site vs. ip reports]) to everyone. The reality is that any system that you purchase today will be obsolete soon with the changing requirements of the web. So the only real way to keep up with it is to have a living breathing system like ours....but that's just my opinion. I'm a little biased. I've built about 200 sites, and I like what we've got. We also have an entirely new .net version coming out later this year that will blow everyone away.

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Permalink Reply by Prescott Shibles on July 31, 2008 at 11:43am

Hi Katy,

There are some open source alternatives that are less pricey out of the box but might require more development costs. It's hard to give too much guided advice because I'm not too familiar with your needs. I'll give it a shot, though.

Drupal
Drupal is the content management system behind theonion.com, fastcompany.com, foliomag.com, spin.com, systeminetwork.com, and businessfinancemag.com, to name just a few. We're using it at Penton as our next-gen CMS platform. Drupal has basic functionality in its core package and can be extended by using any number of thousands of modules that are available for free. One of those modules addresses workflow:
http://drupal.org/project/workflow

Plone
Plone is easy from an editor's point of view and pretty sophisticated from a developer's. So, while it's open source and technically free, it might cost a bit more to get it to the place where you want it. Workflow is built in:
http://plone.org/documentation/tutorial/creating-workflows-in-plone

Other links I've bookmarked on workflow over the years
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/twitter_for_journalists.php
http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=101&aid=140354

CMS Sites
www.cmswire.com
www.cmswatch.com
www.opensourcecms.com -- you can actually try out demos of just about any open source CMS out there!

Hope that helps,
Prescott

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Permalink Reply by Greyson Schwing on July 31, 2008 at 11:54am

Great reply Prescott. There is one article, in particular, I liked there at:

http://www.opensourcecms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=...

Also, be aware Katy that for the smaller publisher, having the in house resources to effectively manage a system like Drupal may not be the best option and at that point you should seek a relationship with a company that has a proven track record and a quantifiable means of showing that they understand the publishing model. Many ad agencies or local web development firms will have limited experience with helping publishers make the transition and with creating actual revenue generating sites. There are many things unique to the publishing business model so be sure to look for companies that specialize in publishing, or at least that have more than one or two publishing clients.

Another challenge for smaller publishers who may want an internal person to do a home-grown system is that unless you have a dedicated team, it is always a bad idea to rely on one internal person to create and maintain your CMS. What happens if they get hit by a bus, or insult your mother, or turn out to be a criminal? Don't put all your eggs in one basket (as they say).

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Permalink Reply by Prescott Shibles on August 2, 2008 at 5:36am

Greyson,

Couldn't agree more. Often, small publishers rely on the "I got a guy who knows this stuff" approach. It works out great in the beginning, but once that person moves on, you're toast.

I thought I'd share one more link:
http://www.campware.org/en/camp/about_campware/677/

They have an interesting approach that might be of interest to small publishers. They have an open source content management system and and open source CRM and subscription management system.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Conley on August 2, 2008 at 1:36pm

I'd forgotten all about the Campware folks. I read about them a few years ago when they got their funding through the Media Development Loan Fund, which is aimed at supporting journalism in emerging democracies.
Just now I took a quick tour of Campware's CMS. It was really amazing. That may be the simplest UI I've ever seen on a CMS.
Very cool.

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Permalink Reply by Vincent Hunt on August 10, 2008 at 8:23pm

Hello -

I am catching the tail end of this - BUT I would like to chime in from a web perspective, and perhaps give you a bit of insight as to what I have discovered in my research.

First thing that I would like to address is that the world of CMS is changing relatively fast with advent of newer technologies in particular the power of Ruby, and the various Blog platforms that are now being morphed into full fledged, functioning CMS solutions within themselves - a good example of this is the power of Wordpress and application like it. IUn my days as a web designer/ developer the CMS was always one of the challenges - and thus like all tech progression tables, writers have always worked on a solution that would, rid us all of the "pesky" issue called: CMS

One platform that I suggest that you give great looks at is CushyCMS. I discovered this group a little more than a month ago and have gotten pretty good feedback from those using the platform. Here is the link - http://www.cushycms.com

What makes this platform super nice, is the fact that it is sitting on it's own server, nothing to install and it's 100% free. It turns your web content into dynamic content in a few simple clicks -

Hopefully this helps!

Vincent A. Hunt
Digerati

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Permalink Reply by Greyson Schwing on August 14, 2008 at 12:28pm

I just wanted to point you to my rant blog where I talk about the dangers and pitfalls of "cheap and easy" CMS solutions like Cushy, Drupal, Joomla! and the like.

Remember, the whole point here is to make money, and if you are spending time and money on a "free" or "cheap" solution, you are just spending money anyway and not focusing on what you do best as a publisher. There are so many hidden costs and soft costs with DIY solutions, just beware!

Here's the link:
http://mediapro.foliomag.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2133529%3ABlogPo...

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Permalink Reply by Prescott Shibles on August 22, 2008 at 11:32am

Greyson,

I think it would be appropriate to disclose that you work for a company that provides a commercial CMS application, GCN Publishing. It's a pretty clear conflict of interest and should be disclosed. As someone who has previously worked with your company as a client, I'm disappointed that you didn't disclose your conflict of interest known here or on your blog post.

I can attest to the challenges of doing it yourself, hiring a commercial company, and hiring a company that focuses on customizations of open source platforms. I've done them all. All have their trade-offs. I can also attest that building a custom CMS in-house is insane. Open source efforts have thousands of developers contributing work. Large commercial CMS vendors have hundreds. Starting from scratch may give you some things you really like, but you won't be able to keep up with the functionality that's being released elsewhere.

Personally, I agree with the core sentiment of your blog post, but I do think your assumptions are askew on the costs and the conflict of interest should be disclosed. Doing it yourself is not really viable for the average small publisher, but open source solutions can bring down the costs of development and enable a small publisher to switch development shops easily if they don't like the service that they are receiving.

Best,
Prescott

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